Anyone who’s ever had the pleasure of changing clothes in a shower- and/or sauna- and/or steamroom-equipped gym lockerroom featuring ”men of a certain age” (no, not you, Mr. Romano) knows that male nudity is not a particularly taboo concept to these individuals. And that’s fine: I respect their (and, for that matter, your) right to feel absolutely no shame about their naked bodies, especially in the context of a gym locker room when said nakedness is an appropriate prerequisite to multiple activities. However, I think we can all agree that there are various unwritten rules of deportment involved in changing in a locker room when full nudity is required. Yet, for whatever reason, the more time that gravity has had to ravage these mens’ bodies, the more likely they are to be on display at any given moment.
To be clear, I’m not singling out older people for dressing or undressing more slowly than their younger brethren. That’s to be expected. What I’m talking about is the age-related tendency to add or remove clothing in a completely illogical order while randomly engaging in nudity-extending activities during the changing process. Everybody knows that the number one rule of underwear etiquette in a locker room setting is L.O.F.O. — as in Last Off, First On. In practice, this means that, if you need to shower, your underwear should be the very last piece of clothing you remove before wrapping a towel around your waste and schlepping off to the stalls. Then, upon your return, your underwear should be the very first piece of clothing you put on before proceeding with the rest of your outfit.
It’s excruciatingly straightforward and no more difficult than any other changing order (and, indeed, simpler/more useful than many — unless you’re Quail Man, of course). Yet for some reason, this stunnginly logical progression becomes an irreconciliable calculus for many gents in their sixth decade and beyond.
Forthwith: a non-inclusive list of the offenses my eyeballs have been subject to in just a few short months at my new gym:
- The most common: Countless men who, having just returned from the sauna or showers, proceed to put on both a fresh undershirt and then a fresh buttondown — which they must then laboriously button up – before finally stepping into the predictable pair of tighty-whities.
- The most easily avoided: Guys who walk dripping from the showers in order to vigorously towel themselves off in the changing area before getting dressed — inevitably in the manner described above.
- The most disconcerting: Gym buddies engaging one another in extended conversations halfway through the changing process, resulting in – since apparently neither man is capable of multitasking to the extent required to slide on a pair of Dockers while discussing his wife’s latest foible – dual displays of wrinkled trouser schnauzer for far longer than even remotely necessary.
- The most unsanitary: The few fellows who deem it necessary to sit down to doff or don certain items of clothing – but only after removing their underwear. Less “junk in the trunk” than “stench on the bench.” (Taint on the paint? P.U. on the pew?)
- The most inexplicable: A man who, having stripped down to nothing but his flip flops, decides that this would be the best time to engage in a vigorous bout of stretching from various angles — presumably because his workout clothes are much too restrictive to be donned before engaging in such preventitive exercise.
Look, guys, I get it: you’re old, you’ve survived this long, let’s see if the rest of us can. But on behalf of those of us who still possess retinas that need to last at least another half-century, can we please adopt a slightly more modest set of behaviors in the locker room? (A new code of “compartment comportment,” if you will.) I know I can work harder to look somewhere else, but goddamnit, there are a lot of reflective surfaces in there! (And yes, I realize that by a cruel trick of nature, the people least likely to come across this article in their everyday lives are those most in need of its advice, so feel free to print this out in large text and mail to your fathers/grandfathers as appropriate. I’m sure they’d be thrilled to hear from you, you ungrateful git.)
Iggy Pop agrees: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OqP1fXKOPE
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! This needs to be in every locker room.
OH YES HOMO DID!
I think the author is a closeted homo…
I’m gay, out, and had a brief career in the gay porn industry, so maybe my “turn the head” stadard is exaggerated. I go to LA Fitness every workday and really don’t see much worth looking at. Even among gym-goers, furry fat 50 year olds who think a once a week raquetball match constitutes a workout don’t even turn my head. And to reference the comment below most of the 20-ish guys who work out there change elsewhere or are extremely modest. I have a theory that school cuts have eliminated PE programs and younger dudes just never have to get used to the high school PE gym shower.
Author of comment, Bryan, 45yo, USNA ’88 for perspective. Oh yeah, Beat Army!
LOL UR A BIGOT.
Ageist? Yeah probably when it comes to who I find attractive. I think most guys, if they are being intellectualy honest, would admit they are more liable to check out younger people because they tend to be in better shape. Anybody want to ask Demi Moore about that concept?
BRO, I WASN’T TALKING TO YOU, I WAS TALKING TO THE DUDE WHO JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION THAT MY CO-EDITOR WAS A CLOSETED HOMOSEXUAL (AS IF THAT WOULD BE A BAD THING). YOU AND I ARE SQUARE (BY WHICH I MEAN COOL).
Cool, haven’t visited this blog before, got linked over here from Mr. Sullivan. Will have to add it to my favorites.
Took me a while, but just figured out the icon to reply to the original post. It’s not that obvious, looks a bit like the Icon when someone has messaged me on my droid phone, but black background.
Also, (sorry, software tester), said icon disappears once you click into the post from the top level to where you can actually read other people’s comments. If you can read other peoples’s comments you cannot comment directly on the original post.
Steps to reproduce:
1) Go to any original post on brutishandshort.com
2) Observe hyperlinked title of post. Observe no comments are visible.
3) Observe black background “messenger” icon to right of hyperlinked title of post.
PATH 1
a) Click said icon.
b) Observe comment dialog appears allowing user to comment on original post
c) Add comment, observe it’s visible at top level
PATH 2
a) Do not click icon, instead click hyperlinked title of original blog post
b) Observe entire article plus existing comments are visible
c) Observe existing comments have “Reply” button, but there is no way to post top level comment from original post, just comments on each other’s comments. This would seem to encourage user flaming sessions.
So basically if you want to comment on the original post, you have to find the icon with the black background and barely readable red font. If you want to comment on a comment, click into the post, then its a pretty obvious Reply button, not very intuitive.
Maybe less crazy if people could easily comment on the original content instead of flaming each other. Nonetheless, my bad. I am such a geek.
I’m assuming someone else hosts your blog so pass along if you like.
Bryan
He seems to spend a lot of time in the locker room checking out dudes.
He prefers the young ones.
Considerably less than on the workout floor, because I’m there to workout. Distractions between sets are of course welcome. I don’t find anything particularly captivating about showering and changing so I can get my butt back to work. And then there is the whole point of the original post to consider.
Conversely; what’s up with young guys who wont take off their underwear until they’ve stepped into the shower stall and firmly secured the curtain to both walls or shimmy their underwear on under their towel? They draw more attention to themselves than if they exposed themselves for 15 seconds.
Maybe it’s a generous act. They don’t want to rub their un-gravity-ravaged ballsacks in your face.
Two reasons men avoid nudity in locker room
1.small endowment
2. Fear of arousal
The same guys will pee in toilet even when urinal is available.
The jokes on you. Older guys don’t give a hoot what you or I think about this. That’s their privilege. They are not worried what other people think about them. It’s a perk of being older. Always has been, always will be. Deal. Stop whining. If you were to speak this to them, they will hit the ignore button.
Or laugh.
HA!
LOL WE CAN TELL.
Why don’t you just say it?
“You’re ugly, and I am entitled to not see ugliness.”
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/minor_differences2/7.png
Pictures: 1, Words: 0. (And they’re my words, goddamnit.)
Excellent typo: if you need to shower, your underwear should be the very last piece of clothing you remove before wrapping a towel around your waste and schlepping off to the stalls.
Though I think it identifies an even bigger problem than what you’ve described if these poor men have to wrap a towel around their waste and carrying that smelly towel wrapped poo into a shower stall while totally naked.
Shit. We need a stricter editorial process.
“wrapping a towel around your waste”
You’re doing it wrong.
LOL TYPOS
I was born in 1942. I’m a veteran of the American army, a Prince of Rome, a master musician, and a Taoist adept. If you have the privilege of seeing me naked, you should get down and kiss the ground, and thank your lucky stars that you’ve seen at least one superior man in your life.
Stay thirsty, my friends!
“a Prince of Rome”
You’re a cardinal? I guess that’s how you justified exposing yourself to all those altar boys, then…
We were princes well before the ‘new religion’, as we call Christianism, got here.
Are you this guy? http://www.montinobourbon.com/Montino_Bourbon_Site/Welcome.html
The same… That was pretty quick!
try this one….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrewSBUPiVQ
“man” defined as your pendulous scrotum?
pendulous? why, does yours float in the air? helium balls?
Hydrogen, actually. They the BOMB!
Don’t get too near the fire….
Worst I’ve seen: a fat fellow in his sixties, blow-drying his taint.
No lie.
It just tain’t right!
I too have witnessed this. I was extremely disappointed to see this behavior omitted from the list. I mean really. If i’m sitting on a bench, you just don’t need to have one leg up on the same bench, blowdrying your nutsack in my face.
Who you callin’ old, whippersnapper? I don’t think locker room changing in high school PE classes is what it used to be. When I was a kid (way back in the 70s) you got butt-naked to change into your gym clothes. After class you got butt-naked again, walked to the showers, and only after going thru the shower (large open space with 6 or so posts with 4 or so shower heads apiece) could you collect a towel to cover yourself. It was a shared humiliation, and just part of growin’ up. You didn’t get a choice. You got over it, eventually. It was worse for some of us than for others (late puberty= hairless little worm at 14). Some of us sped through as rapidly as possible (see: hairless worm). Some guys would sprawl about, joking, snapping towels, turkey necks a-wobblin’. But we all went through it.
I was shocked to hear from my now college-age daughter that they do not have to strip beyond underwear and that as far as she’s aware the boys put their jock straps over their undershorts. They have separate shower stalls.
I’m not saying the way I grew up was better, it was hell. It’s just weird to realize that a shared torture of my youth is now quaint and a bit distasteful.
I prefer to spend less rather than more time exposed in the gym. But I don’t worry about it, and I don’t really notice what anyone else does. As long as they don’t snap me with their towels.
Swampdog, you are right. Older folks have a tolerance (lack of shame) for nudity because they were desensitized in their youth. When my kids were in middle school I was surprised to find that the gym showers were no longer used. I might add those were the same showers in which I got boarded on my bare behind by the gym teacher because of a towel snapping incident.
Dude, the gym teacher did not board you on your naked behind in the shower because he wanted to reprimand you
I’m putting your comment up for the win in this comment section…thanks for dredging up those buried memories… : D
GET OVER YOURSELF.
LOL U 2, BUDDY.
I think at a certain age you just stop giving a shit. I’m in my mid-30s, and as a wee lad I can remember the fogies wandering around with sagging buttocks and naughty bits. Fast forward to today, and the guys that were my age back then now have no shame whatsoever. Go figure.
Yeah, really! who gives a shit about what this homophobic rant says? I never concerned myself with how one (or myself) undresses or dresses in a locker room, and never will. You have to ask yourself is the author less offended by the sight of young, naked men?
The younger the better!
You are a seriously unfunny person. Please just stop.
I was aiming for funnily unfunny. Can’t hit em all, I guess.
Wow Trevor, I work out daily at my gym (I’m 54) and I would be considered a youngster at this place. I honestly never gave such thoughts of nudity avoidance (or irritance) the time of day, but it appears you’ve given these issues a lot of thought – enough to write a long post on the subject. I don’t parade, mind you, but I have no body-shame to think of to keep me from walking to the shower naked (no towel) – its natural. For those who don’t have any shame or are exhibitionists, I avert my eyes and concentrate on my business, getting dry and getting dressed. You find your privacy by how you act. Just a thought, but you might consider exercising at home so you don’t have to be so offended, so regularly.
My house doesn’t have any gym equipment in it.
Question: though I freely admit to body-shame (a holdover from my chubby youth, says my inner Freud), are you suggesting that you’ve always felt this way about locker room nudity, or might you have held a slightly different opinion when you were, say, half your age?
And for the record (and my intentionally hyperbolic screed not withstanding), I’m not offended by all the nudity so much as I’m puzzled by its extreme duration. All things being equal, why wouldn’t you minimize the length of time your most sensitive area is exposed to the vicious elements?
“why wouldn’t you minimize the length of time your most sensitive area is exposed to the vicious elements?”
Which is why I would never, ever, for one second, consider being a nudist. I prefer to not have to make the decision between spraying mosquito repellent on my unit versus allowing the little bastards to feast on it.
My favorite recent locker room sighting — an older gentleman, completely naked, eating a banana.
this is most excellent – i almost feel like i saw it, too…
I think the problem is yours, Trevor.
I’m not yet 50 and amazed at the modesty of the younger guys. Starting in 7th grade, we had to shower after every gym glass every day so you just got over the modesty.
When I’m in the locker room changing, I really don’t take time to check out the naked bodies around me. I’m not at all uncomfortable and really don’t get why anyone would be. You’ve seen one naked guy, you’ve seen them all. I don’t have a problem averting my eyes when necessary.
LOL, “BACK IN MY DAY WE DID THIS SHIT ON THE REGULAR.”
Please shut up.
LOL, MY BLOG, FRIEND!
Well said!!!
Isn’t professing to averting your eyes “when necessary” a tacit admission about the lack of desirability of the sight placed before them?
Hmmm…actually, I’ve always wondered about the guys who DON’T walk naked from their locker to and from the showers. You get bare-assed at your locker, and you’re certainly going to take the shower naked — so what’s the point of wrapping a towel around yourself for the walk to and fro? Prudery in a men’s locker room? I don’t get it.
It’s clear, you have given this a lot of thought. Now it’s time to give some thought to why you give so much thought to such things. Please think about this.
I thought about that, but I don’t think the thoughts I subsequently thought about were worth thinking.
Am I the only one who agrees with Trevor, and is somewhat creeped out by this?
At my first ever visit to a YMCA I made the mistake of splitting from my 5 year old son (they have separate changing rooms for boys and men – I wonder why?) and going into the mens changing room. There were guys in there who had plainly waited all week to be doing stuff naked with other guys around. I’m talking drying their hair, stretching, or just sitting there talking. One guy was happily shaving, something I don’t recall ever having to do in public before, never mind butt naked in public. I came in and got changed and I don’t recall any of them taking off or putting any clothes on in the time between I got there and left.
I’m sure Jerry Sandusky would have been right at home, but the next week I used the family changing room with my son.
Ahh, Martin, you’re my only friend here…
I’m no fan of naked old guys in the locker room, but I’m old enough to have lived through the mandatory gang showers in high school. I’m not especially modest, but I feel like an exhibitionist next to the young guys at my gym who actually carry their shorts to the toilet stall to change instead of taking off their pants in front of other men. It’s ridiculous. I actually watched one guy almost fall over the other day while he struggled to take his bathing suit off one handed while he held a towel in front of himself with his other hand.
The point of all this is, depending on the age of the author, nudity in general may bother him because it wasn’t part of his life experience.
Oh, that’s a funny image. Where did they get their new-found modesty? It may be corruption from television and mass consumerism. If you can’t show it on TV, the kids nowadays don’t think it happens
I think it’s important that old guys and other unattractive people keep their ugly naked bodies to themselves so that younger men have only the bodies of airbrushed underwear models to compare themselves to. That’s much healthier than getting all faggy and checking out real actual people in the locker room.
LOL, READING COMPREHENSION
Hear hear! (“Here here”? I’m never certain which homophone applies. Uh oh, I said “homo”!)
it’s okay to say homo – as long as you are one.
He’s a BIG homophone.
This post says so much more than you think. Mostly about you and your idea that a person who is not you, going about his business, should even think that the very sight of his own body, of whatever age, would be offensive to you. Why would anyone think that his body is repulsive to another just because of his age? Older folks have other concerns when they are in a shower room (slipping and falling, for one). They’re not thinking about you and you, you young puke, should not be thinking about them.
LOL, “YOUNG PUKE.” GOOD ONE.
Firstly, grow up. You sound like an 8 year old. Secondly, bodies getting wrinkly as they age is natural, NOT gross, NOT offensive, NOT capable of dispersing some yet unknown energy that can harm the retina. I’m not sure where your aversion to human bodies in their natural state comes from but please do not blame others for your own dysfunction.
LOL, U A NUDIST OR SOMETHING? FREE LOVE, MAN.
How do you know whether or not wrinkly bodies are “capable of dispersing some yet unknown energy that can harm the retina”? I think we should let science decide.
@DCJoe: yeah, what is that all about? I see guys sitting in the sauna and walking into a shower stall wearing shorts (and then emerging from the shower in shorts). Weird.
yeah – chill out, man -
This is where Aaron found Andrew; who thinks of himself as young and ‘hot’ and actually he’s not.
SNAP!
I don’t understand this one…
I think Andrew Sullivan’s husband’s name is Aaron. #2lazy2google
Whatever you do, NEVER come to Korea! In the saunas here, men (and boys) flaunt their nudity regardless of age. The shower rooms have massage chairs, barber shops, TV’s, snack bars, etc., which are used entirely in the buff. If you are shocked by lingering dressing, imagine seeing someone eating a boiled egg, in a massage chair, watching a baseball game or getting a haircut in the nude. It’s not such a big deal, unless you are from a western country and everyone checks you out to see if the “myth” is true. Blow drying of pubes is an ordinary thing here. It’s not an age-related deal, they are just not hung up about their own bodies, or the bodies of others, nor with nudity.
sad silly boy. still thinking you’re the one. so cool to say: “I get it. You survived, old, no longer of value… Sorry you actually believe that your look is cool while mine is of a fool. After 66 years I am sure that your poor ass will little realize the breath, depth, height nor width of my life experience. In comparison, your little life and naked humanity is trivial to the old fools you find so distasteful.
My theory: Global warming is a conspiracy by old fools to bring the climate up to a level where they can be publically naked more often. Crafty buggers.
Still thinking I’m “the one” what? And I don’t recall writing either that my look is cool or that old people were no longer of value. Balls and penises are simply not attractive, and older men tend to display them more often and for longer periods of time than younger men for no discernible reason. Pretty straightforward (err, but not like– nevermind).
Science says straight men like to look at penises: http://www.salon.com/2011/05/02/sex_internet/
Oh sure, *this* is what you weren’t too lazy to google.
Didn’t want to make that kind of claim unsupported.
My first thought was exactly that of others who see this as an “when did you grow up?” issue. Yeah, going to the men only swimming pool at 12 (prepubescent) in 1965 and having to swim naked wasn’t fun the first time, but, like all other men of my generation, who somehow managed to survive gang showers for gym class and even, shocker that it is, changing into swimming trunks OUTSIDE in the near woods at summer camp, this is just no big deal. I have to be careful not to be “too naked too long” in a men’s locker room? What the hell is a locker room for? If I’m going shimmy out of my undies with a towel wrapped around me, why not do that in the middle of the gym floor? Nothing’s showing that shouldn’t, right?
Bah, humbug!
Trevor you are a shallow idiot. Grow up.
LOL, U SPELT CAT WROGN.
Though I freely admit to being both shallow and an idiot, I deny that either characteristic is actually evidenced by the post in question. Shallowness would imply that I prefer some to be nude for longer periods than others, when in fact I want everybody to be nude for as little time as possible — hot chicks excluded, of course. It just so happens that, everything else being equal, older men tend to violate this precept more frequently than younger men.
Definitely. I’ve seen it a thousand times. I especially saw it a lot at Notre Dame. There are a lot of old guys there who seem to enjoy the idea of standing around naked in front of young men. Just sayin …
Consider that being naked and preening is a natural male function. The ancient Olympics were performed au natural as a glorification of the male form. Consider Walt Whitman’s wonderful words, “And your very flesh shall be a great poem.”
LOL EVOPSYCH
lol,yr capslock is stuck
LOL, ITS “UR’ NOT ‘yr.” U SHOOD LERN SUM SPELING ND GRAMER, PAL.
UR = you are
sincerely
Take that, TOM!
I went to high school and college in the 70s and lost whatever modesty I ever had in the showers. I was the only circumcised guy in my 9th grade gym class so I got plenty of stares, and I stared back. And my college dorm was a nudist colony after about 10 pm until mid morning. Good times, very relaxing, and a lot of male bonding (nothing sexual, just friendships). All this is to say that nudity among males used to be common, and its sad that we’ve lost that. I never swam naked, but guys just older than me (54) did at the Y and actually competed in high school and college swim teams naked.
Is it also sad that we lost polio? Just because something was prevalent in an earlier time, doesn’t mean it was to the good. (It doesn’t mean it was to the bad, either, but the implication I’m seeing in many of these comments is that my generation has clearly missed out on some vital part of the maturation process by not having the opportunity to play grab ass with our friends while staring at their schlongs for large portions of our youth.)
This might be the stupidest thing I ever read. Even on the Internet.
Well, yes, it is sad that young guys awkwardly change under their towels and shower in their underwear. People ought to be able to handle a little same sex nudity without getting hysterical about it.
Trevor, did you really want to write this story? It says more about you than you would want to admit.
Did I really want to write this story? I mean, it certainly wasn’t an assignment from the Times — so yeah, I guess I wanted to in that sense. And who’s to say that it doesn’t say exactly what I wanted it to about me? Maybe I’m a shameless oversharer!
I am 64. I do not even use public showers. I have no occasion to.
However, I can share that as recently as the late 1950s at many YMCAs swimmers, who could only be men or boys, were not allowed in the pool with any clothing on. This was true at the East Liverpool, Ohio YMCA, and I hear from others that the practice was widespread. This may have been how they grew up.
What really gets me is the guys who blow-dry their “hair down there.” One leg up on the bench, arms extended down, waving that hand back and forth to get a good stream of air all up their nether regions. Ugh.
Unless you’re crapping in your towel, your towel is wrapped around your waist, not your waste.
No you’re waist!
I’m a 58-year-old with a membership at a university campus gym, and this article and many of the comments are hilarious. While I have no problems walking in the buff from my locker to the shower or sauna and back again, I always undress and dress quickly in front of the locker, and the undies are always the last off or the first on. I’m careful to not stand with my bare ass in somebody’s face if he’s at a locker across from mine, nor would I ever think of using a blow dryer, much less eat a banana, while unclothed. I would never sit my bare bits down onto a bench, either. I towel off in the shower, but I don’t wrap it around me when done, either.
The most disgusting thing I’ve ever encountered was in the sauna a few years ago when one early middle-aged gentleman proceeded to scour himself with a loofa for about 15 minutes, standing no more than two feet away from me. It was hard not to envision myself being covered with a gentle snow of skin flakes.
Finally, a voice of reason!
Doesn’t anyone understand what “etiquette” means any more…?
Being old and male does not entitle one to flout basic hygenic courtesy in public locker rooms. This article offers mere suggestions to the unwritten rules that every adult male should understand regarding their own nudity and its pseudo-public exposure. Saying you ‘dont care what people think’ is just a copout for not having good manners.
If you want to jacuzzi naked, buy one and do it at home. In the sauna, nakedness is expected, but PLEASE sit on a towel.
We wipe down gym machines after use for a reason – it’s the sanitary (and respectful) thing to do.
Not for nothing, but any such environments where minors are present should be automatic warning zones.
These are simple matters of respect. I’ve heard enough older guys complain about younger guys’ sense of entitlement…well, keep that in mind when your own ‘entitlement’ is on display.
Thanks and fuck you very much.
>>Being old and male does not entitle one to flout basic hygenic courtesy in public locker rooms.<<
Fuck yeah it does kid. What'ya going to do, beat up a naked old dude for flaunting his junk package?
No, it really doesn’t…your bizarre conflation to violence aside.
And if they’re indeed “flaunting”, then they have insecurity issues which are just as unbecoming in someone who, by years anyway, should probably know better.
Given that older men are statistically more homophobic, it even further begs the question: to whom are they displaying their ‘wares’, exactly, and why?
I’d add a codicil on the proper use of locker room blow dryers (ONLY for hair above the shoulders). Otherwise, it’s a perfect!
Jesus, why are under-30 y.o. guys such pathetic dweebs?
Because your junk is ugly.
I always assumed that older men flaunted their junk around the locker room for the same reason that Lyndon Johnson held cabinet meetings while he was on the toilet. Forcing other people to witness something extremely uncomfortable is a way of exerting power over them.
Why do straight men pretend that they are so traumatized by the sight of another man’s penis?
Maybe cause they are?
And if you wrap yourself in a towel before you remove your underwear and then slide your shorts up under it, you might as well wear a big sign that says, “I HAVE A TINY DICK!.”
…as opposed to dropping said towel and removing all doubt?
Is this an issue for you? Want to talk about it? C’mon we’re all guys here (though it seems)….
Trevor must have never encountered a gang-style toilet area (no stalls for privacy, for those who don’t understand). Standard in scout camps and the military, at least in the past. I am not old, and I certainly remember that, in school locker rooms and showers, there was no possibility of keeping your stuff to yourself – the whole system was designed by men who spent a tour of duty in the military and saw it as their mission to de-sensitize boys from their need for privacy. While it was hardly Sparta, the very need was virtually drummed out of boys, universally as a matter of course. I don’t know when this stopped being a matter of course for younger men of today, but there is an important generation experience here.
Oh please! Get over yourself. One only has to look at the godawful long shorts that basketball players wear today to see how far we’ve descended into Puritanism when it comes to the male body.
Trevor = Tobias Funke?
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0011699/
LOL
Are you suggesting the author is a “Never Nude”?
His wife wishes.
Eh, you just hit a point where you figure fuck, I’m going to be looking at the tunnel with the light in it pretty soon, if I got to worry about shit like this until then I might as well end it now…
Trevor made some great points and I am surprised by the pushback here. As I understand it, the issue is not so much nakedness in general, it’s with the exagerrated lengthy time and multiple activity while naked that is annoying.
When I go to the gym, I want my time in the locker room to be as quick as possible. The point of the gym is to exercise. Some of these older gentlemen spend as much time in the locker room as they do on the gym floor! I really believe they are bored and are not so much into the exercise.
I went off on one old man when I was trying to change to get back to work. He could see my locker open, yet came from the shower and sat directly in front of my open locker and dilly-dallied with his routine. Meanwhile, he effectively used up the rest of the bench with his bag, wet towel, and toiletries.
The issue is one of courtesy and personal space.
>>it’s with the exagerrated lengthy time and multiple activity while naked that is annoying.<>Some of these older gentlemen spend as much time in the locker room as they do on the gym floor! <>I went off on one old man when I was trying to change to get back to work. He could see my locker open…<<
And thanks for making my case.
You “go off” on an older man and you complain about courtesy?
Here’s an idea; next time say “excuse me, can you move your things so I can gather my clothes from my locker?”
I have great success with this.
If someone is being thoughtless politely call them on it. Usually they’ll be contrite and accommodating.
“dilly-dallied with his routine”? Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
(Apologies for snarking on one of my three supporters, but I’m basically seven years old.)
Just a thought- maybe some guys are ashamed for the very same reasons that are being plastered all over the news due to the Penn State/Syracuse cases. As a sexual abuse survivor myself, I find locker rooms very difficult places to be in. It’s about as big a trigger as there is for guys like me. So, parse your words when calling guys squeamish for not seeming comfortable; There might be more than one reason why
My condolences.
Re: the Penn State/Syracuse scandals, I personally believe that this is only the tip of the iceberg. There’s something sinister underpinning our so-called “locker room cultures” that needs to be dealt with.
To the naysayers, I would merely point out the priest abuse scandals – which were systemic, not isolated.
Ben Nolan likes to ben dover at the slightest provocation.
Is that a pun or something?
SF Otter, whats wrong with mini-penii????
I’m so glad you wrote this, and I don’t understand why it seems to have upset people so much. I noticed this behavior when I got my first gym membership over a decade ago, and it still weirds me out. By all means, walk to the shower naked, regardless of your age. I won’t say I’m entirely comfortable with it (I had the group showers in my school days, too, and found it fairly traumatic as a skinny, non-athletic youth), but I recognize it as normal locker room behavior. But for fuck’s sake, why do you need to put your leg up on the bench next to me while I’m tying my shoes and powder your balls eight inches from my face? That is absolutely not cool.
I can’t believe the vitriol this article has generated. A lot of people seem truly perplexed as to why someone might not want to see a 70 year old’s junk. You’re fine with your body/the bodies of other men? You feel completely at home surrounded by dangly, wrinkled elephant trunks attached to the boney bodies of geriatric gentlemen? (And I use the term “gentlemen” loosely, as no one worthy of that title would gratuitously expose oneself in a public place.) Well isn’t that just fucking keen?
The rest of us, who didn’t grow up routinely stripping down in front of our friends and peers (and being gay, I must say I wouldn’t have found this sort of thing entirely objectionable if it had happened with any regularity) just aren’t comfortable doing so in front of a group of mutually naked men who seem to be doing anything they can do extend the experience of being nude.
I remember this being one of the things that stood out to me during my first change in a public locker room (around age 12 or 13). I wasn’t expecting to get away without seeing some male nudity – it’s a changing room, obviously – but for the life of me I could not figure out why there were naked men seemingly just walking around being naked – not changing, not showering, just letting it all hang out because… well, nudity-lovers, you tell me? Because why? Because to a 12 year old who’s not accustomed to nudity it’s a pretty shocking (not to mention barf-worthy) sight.
Did I say three supporters? I meant four!
Amazing thread…in the spirit of compromise, can we all agree that nobody, whatever their age or appearance, should sit on UNCOVERED locker room benches naked (sanitary concerns), and blow-drying your sac and/or doing naked stretches within 10 feet of someone else should be avoided (retinal failure concerns)?
I’m less decided about sitting around naked eating a banana.
It appears we can’t agree to such a basic level of respect, actually… (see my post below)
Wait wait, reading the other comments I think I have gotten to the crux of this issue:
Comment: “Being old and male does not entitle one to flout basic hygenic courtesy in public locker rooms.”
Reponse: “Fuck yeah it does kid.”
And there we have it – one side thinks people should exercise some basic courtesy and respect when using a public space shared by others, and the other side says, “Fuck you, I’ll do whatever the fuck I want.”
The true irony is it’s largely the older group acting like spoiled, selfish children.
OF COURSE the older group is acting like spoiled, selfish children.
These are the same “boomers” who are systematically bankrupting our nation with their ridiculous entitlement programs. When it comes time for my generation (I just turned 40) to collect, there’ll be nothing left, but what do these older guys care? They’ll be dead by then.
Do you rush to get your shorts on at home after a shower so you can be damp for half an hour?
Public behavior shouldn’t be the same as private behavior, but there’s also no reason it should be different beyond reasonable issues of hygiene and courtesy. So, no farting, no sticking your butt in someone’s face, no sitting without a towel (though, personally, I sit on a towel to protect myself from the bench and certainly don’t use that same towel afterwards), and no whining about how others conduct themselves within reasonable bounds.
I wonder if the guys who object to locker room nudity enjoy being nude at home.
There must be some kind of issue going on that I’m completely unaware of. By the time I’m done toweling off, I’m dry, so yeah, I can immediately put clothes on and not be damp for the next half an hour. Is persistent dampness a common problem?
I wondered the same thing. Is this a holdover from a period when towels were less absorbent?
You have absorbent towels at your gym? No, I’m often not fully dry or have even stopped sweating when I start to get dressed.
If the laundering service uses fabric softener, the towels are often not terribly absorbent.
As you get older, you will find yourself getting hairier, slacker, and probably fatter. You’ll remain more damp after a shower.
Remember these words.
This is my favorite mini-thread yet.
I should also mention, then, that your skin will become less taut and will take longer to dry.
When the old guy next to you in the gym displays something you don’t appreciate looking at, just remember, you’re staring at your own mortality.
Indeed. Youth is wasted on the young.
Perhaps it’s not clear…
I don’t see anyone here objecting to nudity in locker rooms. As public places go, there are many worse options.
The objections, IMO, are to 1) perceived discourtesy to others, 2) excessive displays which cross the line from nudity to exhibitionism, 3) slovenly, unhygenic practices.
A long kiss in public is fine. A make-out session…not so much. The dividing line is our own sense of behavior between amorous affection and deciding which motel to get a room at.
You most certainly see objections to extended nudity here. Lack of modesty is described as “discourtesy”. You must be missing some of the comments.
Farting: discourteous. Sitting your ass on a bench: discourteous (though, as I pointed out above, sensible guys put down a towel to protect themselves). Being nude “too long” or drying your nether regions: not discourteous, even if others “perceive” them to be so.
Thanks to everyone who commented. The range of perspectives, arguments, theories and jokes in the above is something to behold.
Thought I’d weigh in with a substantial comment:
1) Shedding body shame is one of the gifts of aging. Putting up with all the other crap that goes along with it, I think, entitles them to enjoy it. Just one young man’s opinion.
2) I don’t actually think old people’s bodies are excessively or painfully ugly in most cases. Unattractive is not the same thing as repulsive, and to me, they fall in the former category. I kinda suspect that what causes people to react so strongly is less the ugliness of aging than jarring effect of being confronted by aging when we’re so acclimatized to the fetishization of youth. If that’s the case, I’m kinda on the side of the “get over it” crowd on this one.
3) Old dudes: What’s the deal with blow drying your genitals? It’s funny as a concept because it’s silly, but it’s hard to see someone doing it and not speculate that there’s something strange going on. Has anyone here ever been one of those people who publically blow dries their junk? If so, can you explain why you opt for the blow dryer over just towelling yourself off? Is it a dominance thing? Is it a statement to shy younger men to shed their body shame? Does it just feel really good? Do tell.
I don’t personally, but try it to find out if you like the feeling.
Also, haven’t you noticed how HAIRY some of those guys are?
Of course, the young whippersnappers with their trimmed pubes (what’s up with that?!?!) dry off quickly. When they’re 55 and need week whackers to trim the foliage, we’ll see if they opt for the blow dryer instead.
Re: Trimmed pubes — makes your dick look bigger was the original theory, I think. So porn stars all started doing it. And now everyone consumes porn on the internet from a very young age. The mental image of what one looks like as a man having sex is thus formed including trimmed pubes.
I was just doing some intergenerational kidding. I know why they trim. Tried it myself. Couldn’t stand the itching.
To answer your parenthetical:
BLOWJOBS ARE WHAT’S UP WITH THAT.
See, this is why you should be a twitter more — you’re concise.
Can we at least agree on this: it is not OK to plant your naked, sweat- or shower-bedewed ass on the locker room bench. Seems to me a number of the au naturel gents in their blithe disinhibition consider it just fine to leave their shiny wet arseprints stamped on the public seating. I now do all my changing standing up.
This is a great list and I got one more. . . .
How about when your locker is right next to some old guys and you both finish your workouts at the same time and will be changing and showering. If I’m second to the locker area I remove my stuff from said area and go to area of lesser congestion so we’ll both have a comfortable amount of space to strip down and change. The older male on the other hand does not us the same tactic. They’ll hold their ground and stay put and have their junk in my face as I bend down and tie my shoe laces.
Since college I’ve had no issue with being naked in locker rooms, dorm, frat house, etc. Now, after reading many of the above comments, I’ve decided I should spend MORE time naked in the locker room. Though I might be considered old by many (50) I have a better body than most of the men half my age and I have nothing to be insecure about in the endowment category. I wont eat any bananas or blow dry my balls but if it makes the younger guys uncomfortable that I have no body shame; GOOD! Get over yourselves.
I think it has more to do with freedom than anything else. Figure this: the majority of these old guys likely are married. As people age, their sex drives slowly ebb. If the mrs. no longer cares to see your junk hanging out at home, then you gotta let it loose somewhere. The locker room serves that purpose. But I think it goes even deeper than just “my package is becoming an asexual appendage, so why not treat it like a third leg.”
Its likely that the mrs. also does not approve of your hairy arse shedding particles all over the microfiber sofa, sliding across the leather chair, or, god forbid, mingling with the shag carpets. The gym gives you that freedom to let you swing your sack with reckless abandon and not worry about whatever falls from your nether regions. The over 50 crowd in my gym to a man let their packages hang free, while shaving (often with their third leg perched on the counter), cleaning their ears, watching Sports Center, yaking with their locker neighbor, ironing their clothes, drinking from the fountain, and of course, while putting on shirt, tie and socks before underwear.
Perhaps as I get closer to that age, I will get the invitation to join the club (maybe it comes when you join AARP?). But for now, when i shower, I keep my junk to myself, my ass off the furniture, and let the old guys have their fun.
When I first read it I thought this was mean’t to be a humor piece. But now looking at the comments feels like this really did touch a nerve.
I came here to US from a deeply conservative country where nudity is strictly taboo. I grew up in an environment, where even as kids we would avoid at all costs to be naked in front of other kids. Coming to US and going to a gym locker room for the first time was an extreme shock for me (and to others from my region who came here as well). It took me a number of years to not feel repulsed by the sight of other naked dudes, and even now I feel extremely aware of it (though not repulsed) and tend to avoid it myself (Yes, I am one of those who wears his underpants, puts a towel on top and goes to the shower, pulls the curtains before removing the underpants).
Anyway, so my point is for me, even being naked for a few seconds in front of strange men (and vice versa) is unpleasant and I feel it is just because I was not desensitized to it when I was young and that is likely the case for others too. The old dudes are completely desensitized to it and find nothing unpleasant about it.
Isn’t it bad enough the boomers bankrupted the country, but now they want to rub their wrinkly balls all over everything, too…??
Just also occurred to me that a norm of minimizing nudity would make locker rooms much more accessible (less anxiety-inducing) for trans people.
Obviously the ideal situation is one in which we all would just over ourselves and trans people wouldn’t be warranted in their anxiety around locker rooms, but that’s not the world we live in.
This is an American phenomenon, you don’t see it in other countries. American men have a body shame issue that doesn’t exist in the rest of the world. I believe it has to do with infant circumcision. (you know the rest of the world thinks we are insane for doing this to our sons) This act at birth, one of the first experiences of your life, subconsciously tells you that there is something wrong with your body, that it is dirty and must be corrected. Of course once the majority of guys are cut then even the ones that aren’t are affected because they then feel like freaks even though they are the ones who are normal, so they too become embarrassed by their anatomy.
LOL, IS SIGMUND FREUD IN THE HOUSE NOW, OR WHAT?
Funny piece and funny too that so many failed to see humor — it got their dander up (a nod to the loofah guy).
I gave up caring too much in my 30s, when I actually went to the gym regularly. As a fat guy with a small-to-middling package, I discovered I didn’t have the emotional energy anymore to indulge in shame. I do agree that one should keep to a certain etiquette — LOFO, keep your bathing suit parts off of surfaces, and use the blow dryer above the shoulders only.
Some years ago, I went to a place for a family swim with wife and daughter. It had a beautiful steam room in the locker room, and I gratefully took a seat (towel down first) — I had the place to myself. Then six or eight men entered — aged from the 30′s to 70′s. A few carried 5-gallon sloshing buckets from which branches protruded. Two or three them looked at me — not as if to say “who the hell are you?” but rather, “are you one of us?” Two of them were wearing crudely made felt hats (and nothing else). One sported a single glove — not exactly a loofah mitt — it looked more like a gardening glove (and nothing else). They proceeded to hit themselves and each other with the branches. One of the guys dipped his funny felt hat in a bucket and clapped it on his head. They began talking in what I assumed was Russian. (Visions of Eastern Promises flashed in my mind.) Like any normal English speaker hearing a language I didn’t understand, it seemed like they were all speaking at the same time. I realized the glove was indeed a gardening glove — the guy with it was the most energetic wielder of switches. I stayed for another cycle of steam while branches and other things swung vigorously about the now small-seeming space.
I left and towelled off by the locker. As I dressed, their voices and laughter boomed from the steam room like they were having a party. Which, I guess, they were. And I envied them for their guileless naked sociality — and have reflected many times since that maybe we North Americans, with our (false?) modesty, shame, and status-obsessed body issues, are missing out on something.
Oh good grief. If you can’t stand the sight of imperfectly naked men without body-shame, you’d best avoid locker-rooms of any sort. Some of us are bound to disappoint your concept of body etiquette.
SO much ageism here. It’s a shame. It reminds me of part of a poem;
“as you are now so once was I;
as I am now you soon shall be.”
Seriously, friends, we’re all beings of light having a human experience. While I acknowledge the existence of bad taste and bad manners in the world, a little tolerance goes a long ways. The old dude that you are putting down now will be you soon enough, and may even be teaching you something, such as self–acceptance with a dash of humor… or maybe not.
either way, smile on your brother, and move on.
I’m one of the “old farts” at the gym (early 50s) and have to say that the more years that pass, the more weirdness I see with the younger men in the locker room. Akward ways of getting undressed and dressed so nobody sees them; wearing bathing suits in the showers, wearing jock straps over underwear; putting their dress pants on while still wearing a towel. Absolutely weird stuff. I always figured that the young guys that are so prissy about being covered up are either worried they might pop a bone (closet cases) or else they have body issues or both. I’ve seen this weirdness transfer over to the men’s room at the office in the last couple of years — adult males who won’t use a urinal, even when there is a partition. They have to hide in a stall to take a leak. I’ve never been one of those guys who walked around the locker room stark naked but I grew up in an era where it was common and I don’t particularly think anything about it when other men do it. We’re all men, we all have the same basic body parts so what’s the big deal? Lighten up and grow up.
thank you, phoszoe; I’m pushing 70 and I’ve seen all kinds of bodies. Most of the time, even when they’re young, it’s more like “nothing to see here; move along.”
“We’re all men, we all have the same basic body parts so what’s the big deal? Lighten up and grow up.”
Word!!!
I, a straight male, came to this country in the 1970s, to a grad school dorm, at the age of 20, and was totally taken aback as to how nonchalant the men were about nudity in the locker room.
An aggressively male heterosexual dominated in the US back then and for the most part it was aggressively anti-homosexual too. Yet, straight men felt no hesitation in walking around, chatting, and hanging around with their wang-dang-doodles flapping about!
Indeed, the notion that showers could be built without individual stalls and doors was baffling. It struck me as a bit bizarre and random architectural notion; perhaps like building a home with the toilet bowl in the center of the living room for the convenience of guests.
I was an athlete overseas through high school and undergraduate days, and this particular aspect of American male culture is unique (so are jockstraps, by the way) as far as I know.
Thank god its going away, and its become an old guy thing now.
When I enlisted in the United States Army, I was 1st sent to “Reception Camp”, where I had to immediately learn to do everything in public, including taking a crap, Because the toilets were totally open to the room. After that experience, there’s not much that’s shocking about being in a room with a bunch of other men without their clothes on. That’s when I learned that it’s really not such a big deal. People come in all sizes, shapes, ages, and that’s what’s amazing about people.
Please, let’s not go back to the dark ages.
But it’s in Europe (a town in France) where I saw urinal stalls leaning up against a tree in a public space, with older men using them with no embarrassment. A public restroom in the same town had, as one of its “facilities,” an open hole in the middle of the restroom, complete with footpads showing where to place your feet. My wife and daughter observed about 10 years ago, in a nice section of Paris, a man urinating up against a bush completely in the open in daylight, and he was not drunk or homeless judging by his appearance. I think each culture has its unique quirks when dealing with issues of nudity in public and private.
Honestly, I have always had a feeling that old men were kind of getting off by hanging around naked the way they were. As they lose their inhibitions, they lose their reasons for holding back on the thrill of running around naked. It is a good feeling to hang loose and maybe someday i will lose my inhibitions and join them… Though a room full of other guys does not seem my likely #1 place. On a side note, I know this will come off offensively, but I have always wondered about this trend of old people and loss of inhibition and a connection to pedophilia. I do not know stats on this, but from anecdotal evidence, it seems like most pedophiles tend to be older males, so I wondered if there was a connection to losing your inhibitions and then taking it to the next level… Anyways, I have always wondered about this trend – and your comments have made me think that I may be off base on my conclusions here, but I am still thinking…
I was really surprised to see people walking naked in the locker room when I first came to America. I grew up in India and there people don’t get naked in the presence of others in any situation (except for sex and medical reasons, hopefully). In my opinion, any situation in the locker room for people to get naked for whatever reason can be easily avoided. So I wonder why people want to be naked in front of others in the locker rooms. It’s not like locker rooms are avenues of pleasure, are they?
“So I wonder why people want to be naked in front of others in the locker rooms. It’s not like locker rooms are avenues of pleasure, are they?”
The opposing question is, why not? I just can’t understand what the problem is. Why should nakedness be automatically associated with sex, pleasure or medical reasons. I can understand that some people align it that way, but I can’t see any rational reason for it. Why be ashamed of what you are?
Reading this article I’m completely fascinated about how prude americans seem to be about nudity. If the author is as representative as he claims. Male nudity hasn’t been considered particularily ‘taboo’ in my part of Europe for the last 100 years or so, but for some weird reason it still seems to be in America, the land of the bashful and squeamish. The kind of bashfullness described by the author would probably be written off as immature shyness here, fascinating.
I’ve noticed something conspicuously absent from this conversation: erections.
My husband and I are in our early 40s and are regular gym-goers in a university town (read: no shortage of young or old men in the locker room). We’ve noticed and wondered at everything discussed in this thread; and, as middlings, we sympathize with both groups.
However, as gay guys (especially ones whose lives have bridged the gap from gay is sick, to gay is good, to gay is hip), the fear of popping a boner in the locker room (especially when younger) was HUGE…even debilitating. One of the gifts of growing older is that this is less of an issue: the desensitization the older guys talk about has kicked in. That said, the towel is very much still in place when walking around. No need to court danger.
But what about the young guys? You certainly don’t need to be gay to be aware of a locker room/communal shower as a, at least potentially, sexualized space. Gay porn is rife with it, of course, but guys from the 80s will certainly remember the white-tiled walls and peepholes of “Porky’s”. Young men, in particular, are (generally speaking) at their physically fittest and sexual peak at precisely the time the older guys would have them nonchalantly strolling around the locker room nude…without the systematic desensitization ,they were subject to. Quite the reverse: these guys have been hypersexualized…and worse still, in private.
I have no idea if this is a common problem, but I’m sure it’s a powerful problem for some. I’d be interested to hear if others recognize this (or not).
Is this seriously a problem? Maybe it’s because I’ve been desensitized by hardcore pornography, but I haven’t had an unwanted erection from mere nudity since I was about 14.
If you don’t wish to view my dilapidated old body, and be reminded that in 40 years this will be yours, avert your eyes A-hole!
David: I’ve had an erection the entire time I’ve been reading this article and the comments especially.
Thanks a lot ya’ll.
OMG I just got around to reading this whole thread and I am pissing my pants laughing. Thank you all for a wonderful Saturday morning.
They wrap towels round their WASTE? That must be nasty
I think that it is definitely a generational thing. I was in high school and college in the 1980′s, and no one ever used the showers and no one ever exposed themselves in the locker room. I’m from NYC, and the schools were still recovering from the budget cuts of the fiscal crisis of the 1970′s, so sports and athletic programs were pretty severely curtailed, and that may have something do to with it. But, even afterwards, when I was in the Navy, people were generally as “modest” as conditions would allow. Overall, acceptance of public nudity in locker rooms seems to have fallen away with the transistion from the Baby Boomer generation to Generation X.